Satchin, what do you think about these
flags?
>> Um, I think they're brilliant. I mean,
I'm I'm I'm obviously from Asian
heritage myself. Um, I think there's
absolutely nothing wrong with with
displaying the St. George's flag or the
or the Union Jack or the Scottish flag
or anything else. Um, this is, you know,
this is this is if you can't fly the
British flag in in Britain, then, you
know, we've lost. We we've completely
lost, honestly. Um, you know, we we have
Pakistani flags being flown on, you
know, independence day,
>> independence day e, we got Indian flags.
I have an Indian flag at home,
>> right? I have I have a Union Jack. I
have um a uh, you know, a St. George's
flag. This is this is this is Britain.
We can fly any we can fly our flags if
we can fly. In fact, I think we should
fly our flags in more places. you know,
there should be more places where we fly
fly the English flag. Um, you know, uh,
we got Tower Hamlets, we've got
Birmingham saying we can't have, uh, you
know, the Union Jack, we can't have the
St. George's flag flying because of
health and safety. They didn't say that
about the Palestinian flags. Um, they've
been flying on outposts all all day
long. Um, you know, it's it's absolutely
ridiculous, right? We need to we need to
reclaim this country back. If if people
are telling us we can't fly the the flag
of this country, we we have seriously
lost.
>> Son, what about what? Seriously. Yeah.
Okay. So, how so what about what um
Cynthala was saying? I don't know if you
heard that um interview. You know, he's
he's his his family etc. do fly flags
especially events or or whatever and he
doesn't have any problem with it. He
says that really it should be it's
something that you do on property that
you own. if you if you start sticking
flags and and I take your point about
the Palestinian flag. I'm not I didn't,
you know, um uh choose to ignore that,
but if you're if you're um attaching
flags to lamp posts and painting many
roundabouts and all the rest of it,
that's kind of it might not you might
not want it to be, you know, health and
safety, but it's it's not really your
property. Is it is it okay? Would it be
okay with you if people could just fly
flags from their houses, their windows,
etc. or do you think that's not enough?
>> I'll answer that. I believe in
consistency. I believe if you have a
policy that says you can't fly do
certain things in a certain place, then
it should apply to everybody, not just a
a certain group. We should have
consistent laws and regulations about
this. If if you say you cannot fly the
Union Jack from a from a lampost, you
you absolutely cannot fly a Palestinian
flag from a lampost. That's the end of
it, right? I mean, just have one set of
consistent rules.
>> Uh, so I don't care either way, but but
all I can care about is consistency.
>> Okay, that's a fair point, Sachin. Thank
you very much. Let's speak to Jonathan
who's in Brentwood. Um, hi Jonathan.
>> Hello. Hi.
>> How do you feel about flags? The flags
right now that are uh that are
increasing.
>> Right. Um, I'm going to begin with a
direct warning to the racist bad actors
who are behind this or this campaign.
And I'm not talking about members of
communities who are caught up in it.
>> There's a difference. I'm talking about
the bad actors. We know what they're
doing. We know this is not about
immigration. We know this is not about
national pride.
I am not white. Let's put it this way.
>> But I was born in this country. I've
lived nowhere else. I have a job. I'm
active in the community. I am British.
But in the past few days, people who
know very well know my background have
called me an immigrant. I've been being
called an illegal immigrant. I've been
told that I'm a merely a visitor to this
country.
They say that displaying all of these
flags is some sort of act of defiance
because they've been down and they're
not allowed to display the flag. What
nonsense? I as someone who is not white
but British quite enjoy seeing a bit of
bunting when you know there's one you
know there's a new monarch or a jubilee
to celebrate or on the rare occasion
England sports team win something we're
fine with flags being displayed there
we're fine with all of that and I
actually raise this in many local
community groups online
>> but but local community that that's
absolutely fine we're you know we were
fine with this um and if the flag is
displayed in the spirit of unity and
pride
go for it. And I was laughed at. And I
was laughed at by the sorts of people
who are encouraging others to deface
private property,
>> to spray paint over road markings, which
is probably one of the most idiotic
things you can do,
>> especially like zebra crossings where
people are going to trample over and
possibly spit at
>> um because they know full well it's not
about pride. So what we do is begin to
draw an argument about, well, why other
countries could display their flags? I
can't believe no one let us stop them.
>> Okay, Jonathan. Jonathan, Jonathan,
rewind a bit. I didn't want to interrupt
you because I could I could tell that
you, you know, you you wanted to to get
all of that out. You said at the
beginning that you've lived in this
country for, you know, you were born
here, you've lived here all your life,
and I think you're say, I'm right in
saying that it's only recently that you
have come up against people, presumably
strangers, members of the public, saying
you're an immigrant and you should go
back to where you came from. Is that
right?
>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
>> So, without using any of the words, can
you tell me what happened and what they
said to you?
>> Um,
normally when you hear them being a
little bit too overt overtly racist
about certain people and certain
demographics, and you try to correct
them, saying it's a little bit out of
the line, then they turn on you, and
then they remind you that you're an
immigrant, you're actually just a
visitor to this country or you should be
grateful and all that nonsense. Um,
>> and then you say, "You were born here."
And then what do they say?
>> Yeah.
>> Well, that tends to shut them up,
>> right?
>> I mean, I've had some online I've had
even worse. I've had responses to that
with pictures of orangutangs and and and
nonsense like that. So, this isn't about
pride. We know full well this is not
about illegal immigration. This is
absolute nonsense. We know what's behind
it and we know what they're planning in
September. We know that. We know what
they're planning.
>> All right. All right. Spell out for me
then. And if it's not about the debate
around immigration and people getting
fed up, etc., um, about small boats,
what is it about?
>> This is racism. This is about anyone who
is not white. Cuz again, I'm not white,
but I am British.
>> So why now? What? I still don't
understand. Look, listen. Go on.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Why now? Fair point. Fair
point. Why now? Well, like I said, we
want to differentiate between people in
communities who are caught up in all
this, who believe the lies. I've had
someone say to me, "It is actually
illegal to display the um the St.
George's Cross because it offends ethnic
minorities." That's nonsense. They
believe in these lies and these lies
have been planted out there. So, you
can't blame people caught up in the lie.
But what you can do is point the finger
at the bad actors who have organized
this because they are planning something
for September. And we know they are. And
they what they want to do is rile up as
many possible people as possible to to
to create some sort of narrative that it
was because of public anger. And I want
to get it out there as someone who is
British and who is not white. We have no
problem with the flag being displayed
properly. In fact, I think are there
rules about how you should display the
flag? Yeah. And half the time they're
not even these patriots aren't even
following the rules.
>> I've got to read this though. It's a
WhatsApp from Angela in Stevenage. I did
not feel patriotic to England at all
until 5 minutes ago. I just pulled off
the A1 at junction 7. And to see all the
flags on the roundabouts and down the
dual carriageway made me feel very proud
and quite emotional the first time in
years. So, thank you to all the people
that put up the flags. Well, there you
go. Um Razia has called in. Uh she is an
eping very much been in the news
recently. Uh Razia, what's your opinion
on um on flags that are are not on
private buildings but are on lamp posts
and painted on many roundabouts etc.
>> I think had the flags been put up in
good spirit then they would have been
celebrated but unfortunately
what started with a protest against the
asylum seekers but then has turned very
quickly into something completely more
sinister. I think our wonderful flag has
been hijacked. it's not been put in in
up in good spirits. And I mean, if we if
it was a sporting event or something
that we were celebrating, something that
we really felt jubilant about, I don't
think anybody would have a problem with
the flags going up, but it's the spirit
in which they have been put up. When you
have masked men in the dead of the night
hoisting up these flags,
um you it's very clear they've not been
put up in good spirit. They've been
aligned with the far right unfortunately
and with the reform MB BMP and I think
this is why people are upset. I have had
so many emails from residents both white
and of color that are saying they feel
they're uncomfortable. This is not about
uh being patriotic to the country. This
is something completely different. Um
and they are calling for the flags to be
taken down. I mean we we we are calling
for the flags to be taken down.
>> Okay. Razie, we should just say this. So
you you what's your um job title?
>> I I'm a town and district council and
deputy mayor of
>> Right. Okay. Um Zan, you're right in the
thick of it really, aren't you?
>> You very much so. And and every time we
we try to put a reasoned argument
forward, we we are we are shut down. I
I've had so much abuse on social media,
so much hatred.
I've lived in Eping since 2012. I
brought my children up in Eping. I love
Eping. It is, and I've said this a
number of times, it's an incredibly
special place to live. We are blessed
with having the forest on our doorstep.
Um, and the community has always been so
lovely, so accommodating, so welcoming.
Suddenly, this level of hatred is is
just beyond. It really is. Uh you talked
there about um uh the uh people putting
uh things up in the middle of the night.
Just quickly, there'll be some people
shouting at the radio saying, "Well, we
have to do that because if we do it
during the day, will, you know, we'll be
we'll be stopped because it's it's
health and safety or it's not allowed,
etc." So, that's what some people would
say, but Razie, we haven't got a huge
amount of time. And I do want to ask
you, seeing as you are deputy mayor for
Eping, um what your own view was of the
high court ruling around the Bell Hotel.
Um I I think I think they've shot
themselves in the foot if I'm perfectly
honest because the government is not
going to give in to violence. I I if
they win what's the message that we're
sending out, it's a very dangerous
president that we're sending out that
the more violent you are, yes, we we
will give in. Violence should never pay.
Violence should never ever ever pay.
Vigilante behavior is not acceptable.
But ultimately it was it was a it was a
legal issue, wasn't it? Rather than um
rather than what was going on around the
country,
>> it was a planning issue. And if the
judge had actually thought about rather
than using the violence uh to determine
uh the judgment if they had actually
thought about the planning issue um I
don't think the judge would have ruled
in that way because when you look at
planning you look at environmentally
based nuances I mean you know the
neighborhood how is it affecting the
neighborhood the road network
that wasn't really considered what was
considered was actually um having the
asylum seekers there is causing um the
residents to become violent. It's the
level of violence and and that to me was
wrong.
>> Right. And other people would say that
having the hotel there was making
residents feel unsafe.
>> Um
it's very difficult because I know
residents that live opposite the Bell
Hotel. I have also been contacted by
residents that live within the little uh
culdeac next to the Bell Hotel. and
they've said to me in emails that um up
until the protests
they didn't even know that asylum
seekers were there. So you have this
sort of you know lots of different
opinions some of course yes you know and
and I think the problem is that you have
this grip feeding effect of negativity
of faright sort of slogans being branded
about um I spoke to somebody only a few
days ago that said actually one of the
waitresses in one of the local cafes
said no she hasn't seen anything but
she's heard. So you hear and then you
take it the gospel that that's what's
happening.
>> Look, we cannot minimize the assault
that happened. The the perpetrator was
swiftly arrested and charged. Let the
police get on with their job. We need
calm. We need peace again in our town so
we can all go about our business, okay?
Without feeling threatened.
>> Okay, Razia, I think we can all um agree
on that. Razie, thank you very much. I
want to squeeze in Alina who's in Sur.
Um hi Alina. uh flags, how how do they
make you feel?
>> Um to be honest, these flags make me
feel so uncomfortable and um this is
probably just because of my experiences
as life. Um I'm mixed race. Um and I've
always associated that flag with um
you know, you're not welcome. That that
that was what I got from the flag. I
mean, even growing up and watching This
is England that that flag was flown and,
you know, there was a lot of racism in
that movie. Um, I've received racism
from people who've flown the flag in
their gardens. Um, you know, so for me,
when I see that flag, it's you're not
welcome. And for the past couple weeks,
I've received um racist abuse. Um, you
know, and mainly it's from people who
fly that flag or on social media have it
as a profile picture. Um, so yeah, it
it's it makes me feel so uncomfortable.
It really does.
>> Always. What What about around sporting
events and stuff like that when England?
>> Because I No, I think that's because
it's a completely different reason. I
mean, come on. This flag situation has
only just come up because of the asylum
seek in the hotel. Why didn't they do it
before? Why didn't they do it before?
You know, I work in domestic violence.
Um, I support women that are in um
asylum seeker hotels that have fled DV.
So, it's not only just these men that
they're talking about that are in these
hotels. There's women and children in
there, too, you know. So, it it's just I
I don't I I'm British. I was born here,
born and bred. My mother is white
British, you know. So, I'm very proud of
this country. But when I see things like
this and the racism that are coming from
people that fly this flag, I'm just
disappointed. Okay.
>> Um, you know, and I point it out. I
point it out. It makes me feel
uncomfortable. And it's like, well, how
does it make you feel uncomfortable?